Yawn. Another ryzen 6000 rebrandeon product. Nobody cares about that, we want the zen 4+rDNA3 chips.
And why oh why do these companies always put the thunderbolt on the front? Most thunderbolt devices are left plugged in, why would I want to dirty my desk with cables wrapped around the front of the PC?Reply
It has all of the IO improvements relevant to this form factor. Zen 4 barely moved the needle compared to Zen 3, and RDNA3's biggest gains were in high-CU yields via chiplets. This form factor doesn't even benefit notably from the expected mild Ryzen 7x4x efficiency improvements.Reply
20%+ increase in perf/watt, only ~5% loss going from 125 to 45 watts, and better clock scaling are "minor". Sure. Dont forget rDNA3, which is supposed to be a 40%+ improvement despite the same CU count.
Zen 3 also scales down well, the difference is AMD wasn't advertising it.
All of the improvements you listed are desktop 7000 platform vs desktop 5000 platform, and top SKU GPU vs top SKU GPU. Perf/watt improvements mostly came from the die shrink and improved bandwidth -- this platform has a die shrink and improved bandwidth, just the refined 6nm instead of newer 5nm. Clock scaling does not matter at these TDPs. RDNA3 performance literally cannot reach a 40% improvement over iso bandwidth (and there's no way the memory controller got completely reworked in a year's time).
It feels like you eat up hype. Ryzen 7x4x will be nice, but its goal is to be the successor to Ryzen 5000, not Ryzen 6000. Ryzen 6000 is an up-to-date platform that has barely even stretched its legs. Reply
No, it's you who doesn't care. As it happens, this is a very fast APU, considering it is a rebranded 6000U series. Asrock somehow managed to tune the settings so that it is achieving extremely good results in gaming.
As for front or rear ports, does it really matter? NUCs are best mounted on the backs of monitors anyways.Reply
I own 5 NUCs, none was ever mounted to a monitor: they connect via a cascade of KVMs to a set of screens that have nothing mounted behind.
I bought them for their low idle power and the small space they occupy under my desk. And they share that space with 6 Mini-ITX systems, four workstations and a set of semi-resident notebooks.
While I value that at least their RAM and storage can be explanded, I'd still prefer Mini-ITX mainboards in 5L boxes, because generally they allow me to have or put anything inside (e.g. 10Gbit NICs) that I have to hang e.g. via Thunderbolt to the outside of a NUC.
Unfortunately, getting "NUC power" in a Mini-ITX form factor has become nearly impossible, a very recent Erying G660 (https://wccftech.com/intel-alder-lake-h-laptop-cpu... which I've just added to my collection being one of the very few exceptions.
BTW that board works rather well, at least after upgrading the Pico-PSU to 120 Watts, even if it only consumes 45 Watts on sustained peak loads.
And thanks to a Noctua NH-L9i-17xx cooler it remains unnoticeable even under top load, something which the NUCs only ever achieve when you restrict their PL1/PL2/TAU settings to match their tiny fans.
Just remember that personal computers have been loved for decades, exactly because people could use them in ways that their vendors never imagined.Reply
hey I am considering purchasing the Erying G660 12500H - what is your idle power consumption? can you check if you are able to get intel C10 power cstates at idle?
I'm trying to build a home NAS and this board combo seems perfect to throw into a NAS chassis and run proxmox/unraid. Reply
Looking at the AMD specs for the CPU, it supports ECC if the platform does. Does the platform support ECC?
A fanless variant (possibly with a lower power limit and a larger box) would be nice for the desktop, but (I guess) also for a number of industrial environments.Reply
For the benchmarks I could easily reproduce*, the figures for this PC are very similar to those for the (considerably more expensive, and probably much quieter) base-model M2 Pro Mac mini (10 CPU cores, 16 GPU cores, 16GB RAM). The Mac mini is prettier, has more Thunderbolt ports, and does not need a power brick, but has only one 1G ethernet port. ($100 more gets you 10G, which also enables very minimal remote power management.)
* Crossmark, Cinebench, Handbrake, Jetstream (Firefox), Speedometer (Firefox), WEBXPRT4 (Firefox), Aztec Ruins, Wild Life (M2 performance notably better on those last two).Reply
Huh? They announced this 2 months ago on this web site. And now they announce it again? And I still could not buy it. So I bought something else. Way behind the curve!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!Reply
I got a 7735HS for $500. That is the current price of a ASROCK 4800U which I also own (great box). My guess is the price for the ASROCK 7735U will be at least $700. ASROCK dropped the ball.Reply
USB4 seems to only work best with Win11+. When I use the Win10 22h2 or WS2022 the USB4 driver knocks out the other USB gen 3.2 C port. Would like a post by anyone using Linux or WS2022 and having all the USB ports working.Reply
I would like to thank you very much for the detailed and comprehensive Mini-PC tests. Based on your tests I decided to buy the ASRock Industrial 4X4 BOX-5800U and I am very satisfied with it and I am very grateful to you.
"The company could have delivered support for similar TDP values with a better noise profile by allowing for fine-grained fan speed control based on SoC temperature."
While this is certainly true (in theory), it might have been difficult for ASRock to properly implement such a feature because the SoC has may have been designed to operate at 28W/35W and not twice as much. In order to allow fan speeds to run lower than 100% would probably have demanded a much beefier cooling solution to begin with, which was probably not possible considering the constraints of the form factor and the price bracket.Reply
Agree. Or provide better cooling. Still, I would buy this but it came out too late for me. And yes, 7735HS boxes run at 15W idle and when they spin up the fan noise is less. Still I would go with ASROCK for a 7735 series if I was looking now.Reply
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5080 - Thursday, April 6, 2023 - link
Wondering if the 4X4 Box will be updated to the Ryzen 7 7840U or any of the other Phoenix based APU's in the near future. ReplyTheinsanegamerN - Thursday, April 6, 2023 - link
Yawn. Another ryzen 6000 rebrandeon product. Nobody cares about that, we want the zen 4+rDNA3 chips.And why oh why do these companies always put the thunderbolt on the front? Most thunderbolt devices are left plugged in, why would I want to dirty my desk with cables wrapped around the front of the PC? Reply
lmcd - Thursday, April 6, 2023 - link
It has all of the IO improvements relevant to this form factor. Zen 4 barely moved the needle compared to Zen 3, and RDNA3's biggest gains were in high-CU yields via chiplets. This form factor doesn't even benefit notably from the expected mild Ryzen 7x4x efficiency improvements. ReplyTheinsanegamerN - Monday, April 10, 2023 - link
20%+ increase in perf/watt, only ~5% loss going from 125 to 45 watts, and better clock scaling are "minor". Sure. Dont forget rDNA3, which is supposed to be a 40%+ improvement despite the same CU count.How is that rock you are living under? Reply
lmcd - Wednesday, April 12, 2023 - link
Zen 3 also scales down well, the difference is AMD wasn't advertising it.All of the improvements you listed are desktop 7000 platform vs desktop 5000 platform, and top SKU GPU vs top SKU GPU. Perf/watt improvements mostly came from the die shrink and improved bandwidth -- this platform has a die shrink and improved bandwidth, just the refined 6nm instead of newer 5nm. Clock scaling does not matter at these TDPs. RDNA3 performance literally cannot reach a 40% improvement over iso bandwidth (and there's no way the memory controller got completely reworked in a year's time).
It feels like you eat up hype. Ryzen 7x4x will be nice, but its goal is to be the successor to Ryzen 5000, not Ryzen 6000. Ryzen 6000 is an up-to-date platform that has barely even stretched its legs. Reply
evolucion8 - Tuesday, April 25, 2023 - link
Intel in the other hand cant compete with AMD in the Sub 55W market with Zen 3+, let alone with Zen 4 ROFL. Replymeacupla - Friday, April 7, 2023 - link
No, it's you who doesn't care.As it happens, this is a very fast APU, considering it is a rebranded 6000U series.
Asrock somehow managed to tune the settings so that it is achieving extremely good results in gaming.
As for front or rear ports, does it really matter? NUCs are best mounted on the backs of monitors anyways. Reply
TheinsanegamerN - Monday, April 10, 2023 - link
It achieves the same as any ryzen 6000 chip with DDR5. There's no magic tuning, asrock just stopped gimping.And yes, port placement does matter. Reply
StevoLincolnite - Wednesday, April 12, 2023 - link
No. Port placement doesn't matter on these devices. They are mounted behind monitors. Replyabufrejoval - Sunday, April 16, 2023 - link
I own 5 NUCs, none was ever mounted to a monitor: they connect via a cascade of KVMs to a set of screens that have nothing mounted behind.I bought them for their low idle power and the small space they occupy under my desk. And they share that space with 6 Mini-ITX systems, four workstations and a set of semi-resident notebooks.
While I value that at least their RAM and storage can be explanded, I'd still prefer Mini-ITX mainboards in 5L boxes, because generally they allow me to have or put anything inside (e.g. 10Gbit NICs) that I have to hang e.g. via Thunderbolt to the outside of a NUC.
Unfortunately, getting "NUC power" in a Mini-ITX form factor has become nearly impossible, a very recent Erying G660 (https://wccftech.com/intel-alder-lake-h-laptop-cpu... which I've just added to my collection being one of the very few exceptions.
BTW that board works rather well, at least after upgrading the Pico-PSU to 120 Watts, even if it only consumes 45 Watts on sustained peak loads.
And thanks to a Noctua NH-L9i-17xx cooler it remains unnoticeable even under top load, something which the NUCs only ever achieve when you restrict their PL1/PL2/TAU settings to match their tiny fans.
Just remember that personal computers have been loved for decades, exactly because people could use them in ways that their vendors never imagined. Reply
thelinuxguy - Sunday, May 7, 2023 - link
hey I am considering purchasing the Erying G660 12500H - what is your idle power consumption? can you check if you are able to get intel C10 power cstates at idle?I'm trying to build a home NAS and this board combo seems perfect to throw into a NAS chassis and run proxmox/unraid. Reply
erinadreno - Friday, April 7, 2023 - link
I'm actualy glad that companies don't take product advice from prosumers ReplyTheinsanegamerN - Monday, April 10, 2023 - link
Yes I too enjoy taking the schlong from multi billion dollar corporations with no input, I must CONSOOM MORE PRODUCT. ReplyNaterGator - Thursday, April 6, 2023 - link
Me seeing dual NIC: oh yay, maybe this could be a viable low power routebox?Me seeing dual realtek: sigh, maybe next time. Reply
dontlistentome - Friday, April 7, 2023 - link
They are differing speeds too. Only problem is .. what instead? Both the Intel 225 and 226 chips are borked. Replysjkpublic@gmail.com - Thursday, April 20, 2023 - link
Exactly. My experience with the Intel 225-v NIC has been bad. It is well documented . I like that this uses Realtek. That is a plus. Reply3ogdy - Friday, April 7, 2023 - link
"serious performance"Thank you for the accuracy. I guess we'll all be sad and crying after all that seriousness.
Highly performing. No, seriously.
This is the equivalent of the Ferrari 812 Superfast. Reply
PeachNCream - Saturday, April 8, 2023 - link
What is an 812 Super fast? It sounds like yet another stupid GPU or RAM branding. Replysjkpublic@gmail.com - Thursday, April 20, 2023 - link
And its not just the CPU. I believe since the 6000 line the GPU is now almost 2x as fast. ReplyAntonErtl - Friday, April 7, 2023 - link
Looking at the AMD specs for the CPU, it supports ECC if the platform does. Does the platform support ECC?A fanless variant (possibly with a lower power limit and a larger box) would be nice for the desktop, but (I guess) also for a number of industrial environments. Reply
heffeque - Friday, April 7, 2023 - link
Disappointed with AV1 decoding.AMD needs to fix that ASAP. Reply
Hamm Burger - Saturday, April 8, 2023 - link
For the benchmarks I could easily reproduce*, the figures for this PC are very similar to those for the (considerably more expensive, and probably much quieter) base-model M2 Pro Mac mini (10 CPU cores, 16 GPU cores, 16GB RAM). The Mac mini is prettier, has more Thunderbolt ports, and does not need a power brick, but has only one 1G ethernet port. ($100 more gets you 10G, which also enables very minimal remote power management.)* Crossmark, Cinebench, Handbrake, Jetstream (Firefox), Speedometer (Firefox), WEBXPRT4 (Firefox), Aztec Ruins, Wild Life (M2 performance notably better on those last two). Reply
bernstein - Saturday, April 8, 2023 - link
Thanks! exactly why i would get this over a mac mini Replymeacupla - Saturday, April 8, 2023 - link
The size of a mac mini is also considerably larger than a NUC with its power brick. Replysjkpublic@gmail.com - Sunday, April 9, 2023 - link
MAC Mini you buy it that is it. Limited memory and brain damage. The only positive with a MAC mini is China and Twain going to be toast. Replysjkpublic@gmail.com - Sunday, April 9, 2023 - link
Huh? They announced this 2 months ago on this web site. And now they announce it again? And I still could not buy it. So I bought something else. Way behind the curve!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Replysjkpublic@gmail.com - Sunday, April 9, 2023 - link
I got a 7735HS for $500. That is the current price of a ASROCK 4800U which I also own (great box). My guess is the price for the ASROCK 7735U will be at least $700. ASROCK dropped the ball. Replysjkpublic@gmail.com - Sunday, April 9, 2023 - link
USB4 seems to only work best with Win11+. When I use the Win10 22h2 or WS2022 the USB4 driver knocks out the other USB gen 3.2 C port. Would like a post by anyone using Linux or WS2022 and having all the USB ports working. ReplyIts Toasted - Monday, April 10, 2023 - link
Dear anandtech team,I would like to thank you very much for the detailed and comprehensive Mini-PC tests. Based on your tests I decided to buy the ASRock Industrial 4X4 BOX-5800U and I am very satisfied with it and I am very grateful to you.
Best regards
Its Toasted Reply
sjkpublic@gmail.com - Thursday, April 20, 2023 - link
Interesting. The 5800U GPU is almost twice as slow as this model. Replysjkpublic@gmail.com - Wednesday, April 12, 2023 - link
Audio. This uses the ALC233 audio chip. Other companies use something else. How does the ALC233 compare to the ALC269? Replyottonis - Friday, April 21, 2023 - link
"The company could have delivered support for similar TDP values with a better noise profile by allowing for fine-grained fan speed control based on SoC temperature."While this is certainly true (in theory), it might have been difficult for ASRock to properly implement such a feature because the SoC has may have been designed to operate at 28W/35W and not twice as much. In order to allow fan speeds to run lower than 100% would probably have demanded a much beefier cooling solution to begin with, which was probably not possible considering the constraints of the form factor and the price bracket. Reply
sjkpublic@gmail.com - Saturday, April 22, 2023 - link
Agree. Or provide better cooling. Still, I would buy this but it came out too late for me. And yes, 7735HS boxes run at 15W idle and when they spin up the fan noise is less. Still I would go with ASROCK for a 7735 series if I was looking now. Reply